tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14710344.post2090063216220829917..comments2023-11-03T05:46:44.728-04:00Comments on RevGalBlogPals: Wednesday Festival: Children in ChurchStephanie Anthony/She Revhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10089531643725874239noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14710344.post-25806225151304297862011-04-29T22:45:20.853-04:002011-04-29T22:45:20.853-04:00Thank you for your post! I must admit that I’m no...Thank you for your post! I must admit that I’m not a female clergy, I leave that to my wife. But, that does mean that I am often in church and often a “single” parent in the pew with our two monsters, I mean sons (ages 3 and 6). It is extremely difficult to worship with kids around, and we don’t have any other options. But, I do believe that children do belong in worship (though I sometimes say that through gritted teeth). So, my way of dealing with it was to create a yearlong Sunday school curriculum (PreK-6th) teaching students what worship is and how to understand the (ELCA) Lutheran liturgy. I’ve had three churches “beta test” it this year and they’ve commented that the kids are more engaged in worship. Anyone who’s interested can email me at SpiritandTruthPub@gmail.com. Even with that, my 6 year old is still a struggle in worship. But, when he does follow along and participate, it does make my heart sing and thank God! As for single-parent pastors, I can’t even imagine. My heart goes out to all of you!Gregorynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14710344.post-57965747996812932612011-04-29T04:34:11.015-04:002011-04-29T04:34:11.015-04:00I am a Minister, but not a parent. Where I am in p...I am a Minister, but not a parent. Where I am in placement, during school terms the children are in worship for 20-25 minutes. One of the children will read the Bible reading relating to Sunday School and the children’s talk is the teaching session for Sunday school. They then leave for further reflection and activities - which depends on which children are there, and the ages. Once a month we celebrate communion, and the children return for that. <br />I love having children in worship, and look for ways for everyone to be included. A few times each year, this Sunday is one of them, the Sunday School leads worship. Even on ‘normal’ Sundays, I attempt to include children in leading parts of worship – again depends who is around. Our children range from 3-13 years, and attendance is patchy. We have a table with activities near the front of the church, basic things like colouring in, a few puzzles and some books. Children can sit there or take stuff back to sit with their parents. Being at the front means at times they stop what they are doing and check on what is happening.<br />The older people love having children in worship, BUT, I do get comments about how much they like the quiet and peace when the children are in Sunday school. It is a balance.<br />Messy Church is great, if you haven’t looked at it, I suggest you do. We are doing Messy Church once a quarter, and while it takes some planning, it is all in the books. It means we have had families come to worship [at Messy Church] that we rarely see I church. It is a great place to invite Baptism families, and some church families invite their friends. <br /><br />I would happily have children in worship all the time, and try and have worship where that is accommodated, but in reality, that isn’t possible. At the moment, children feel comfortable in church, and LOVE Sunday School. <br />I do like the idea of a joyful noise service once a month,<br />PS, I didn’t grow up in the church, and am the odd one out in my family. I came to church through a neighbour inviting me to Sunday School in my teens. That Sunday School met before worship, and very few children attended worship after Sunday School.a pearl downunderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08850537216717300189noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14710344.post-69483337553137698482011-04-28T13:10:21.621-04:002011-04-28T13:10:21.621-04:00Katie, as one of those who encourages people to in...Katie, as one of those who encourages people to include children in the congregation’s worship, let me say that I believe all that I say AND that I know for sure that all parenting is local. The challenge is to apply all the theories, guidelines and visions about raising children with a specific child or group of children. Often that means deciding to do something that looks on the outside like less than “best practice,” but which works for now for these particular people. I’m with the others favoring all the “messy solutions” and compromises. They are actually often the source of next “wonderful new thing.” The glory of smaller congregations is that they can plan for more individually recognized children and their families and can make changes more easily “as needed.” The trick is staying alert to the ever changing problems and possibilities. It does generally keep us dancing on the very tips of our parental and pastoral toes!Worshiping with Childrenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12023055938126631743noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14710344.post-33317798198955463632011-04-27T22:38:20.346-04:002011-04-27T22:38:20.346-04:00I have always believed that children belonged in c...I have always believed that children belonged in church because that was where I was, from the time I was a baby.<br /><br />However, as a non-parent, I'm aware that I don't fully know the frustrations of worshipping with small children and not getting anything out of it. I don't want to be judgmental. I'm trying to be flexible.<br /><br />The one thing that I knock up against if Sunday School (or something like that) is held at the same time as church -- when do those who teach Sunday School (who are often parents themselves?) get the chance to worship? We have Sunday School at the same time as church, and the most dedicated parents are often Sunday School teachers, which means that they miss out on the thing they love the most -- to be in worship.<br /><br />I like some of the 'messy church' and 'children's church' ideas I'm hearing about and would like to hear more aboutDiane M. Rothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07749136181846671327noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14710344.post-44276731240174723512011-04-27T21:43:35.614-04:002011-04-27T21:43:35.614-04:00One of the greatest gifts ever given to me was a f...One of the greatest gifts ever given to me was a friend or two in the parish I was part of before seminary who took my son to sit with them from time to time. Not only was he better behaved with them but I was able to serve on the altar or worship more peacefully. <br /><br />I do understand the frustration...and I still believe kids belong in church. Part of that comes from remembering being in church myself when I was a small child, and part comes from knowing that the liturgy *does* sink in from exposure.<br /><br />BUt I also know that not every one agrees with me. And to make it even harder, in the congregation where I serve now, the older people (the majority of the congregation) can be intolerant of *any* extraneous noise and make parents feel like interlopers--which is of course incompatible with their stated goal of attracting families and growing...but that is another post I suppose. And finding someone to staff a nursery or teach a church school class for the youngest kids is also virtually impossible. So there are no easy answers but it is an issue on my mind even long after my own kids have flown the nest. <br /><br />At the very least I think kids should come in for the Eucharist because that is such an integral part of what we do.Rev Dr Momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14686528826414330355noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14710344.post-65559068817569975812011-04-27T18:11:40.054-04:002011-04-27T18:11:40.054-04:00I had so much to say that I went over the word cou...I had so much to say that I went over the word count, so posted my response on my blog too. (I can't for the life of me figure out how to get the blue words that take you directly to my blog to work; so here is the address for you to past into your browser:<br /><br />kiltsdjembesandredboots.wordpress.com <br /><br />I also need to add, that I well know that some situations simply don't have what is required to provide any kind of Sunday School for kids. I've often said my youngest daughter cut her teeth on the back of a pew. What our family did was (I was one of two non-ordained lay leaders) set up an area at the back of the church for the kids to color, model with play dough, make posters, jigsaw puzzles, etc.) I would buy the special up to date cool craft things for them and never allow them to come home.The Lady Fatherhttp://kiltsdjembesandredboots.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14710344.post-39039349872062191192011-04-27T17:23:03.518-04:002011-04-27T17:23:03.518-04:00Oops, let me clarify for those who don't know ...Oops, let me clarify for those who don't know me: While I don't think an hour a week in formal, adult worship is essential for the spiritual formation of children, I'm assuming that the other option is Sunday school, children's church or another age-appropriate religious activity — although I admit locking my own in the bathroom sometimes seemed like a good idea.High Altitude Faithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07243152400598861197noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14710344.post-23816730340818790362011-04-27T17:20:36.970-04:002011-04-27T17:20:36.970-04:00Oh, Katie, I hear such frustration in your words! ...Oh, Katie, I hear such frustration in your words! Maybe I can hear it because I've been there. One of mine (a fosterling, so I really wasn't TOTALLY responsible for his lack of reverence) said to another after she took a little too much off the communion loaf, "Jesus Christ, Kate, make a sandwich!" He didn't use his inside voice, either, let alone a church voice. He only possessed one voice, and it was a strong, belligerent one! <br /><br />I preach in a REALLY tiny church that has no place else to put children except the sanctuary, but I've never seen any statistics that children who don't spend an hour a week in the sanctuary grow up with less understanding of theological issues, less devotion, less attachment to the church.<br /><br />Two thoughts: It does get better, sooner than you think it will. Until it does, you should remind yourself over and over that the behaviors that drive you crazy are not bothering other worshippers.<br /><br />Second, your congregation has a responsibility to provide for the religious education of all its children, including yours, and it has a responsibility to provide for your own sanity during your service as a worship leader. Can you find a members to serve as designated grandparents during worship? Can you have Sunday school during worship three Sundays a month and then have a messier, louder, child-friendly worship service on one Sunday a month?<br /><br />In short, can you identify a plan that will work FOR YOU? Then you can make the argument that you want to be the best spiritual leader you can be, and that requires you to not be distracted during worship. That's the truth.Suzynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14710344.post-17767864907357710522011-04-27T14:01:35.884-04:002011-04-27T14:01:35.884-04:00I was inspired to post thoughts on my experience w...I was inspired to post thoughts on my experience with children's chapel on my blog, but not as a specific reply. <br />Katie & revsymes - I have had similar thoughts about blowing a gasket with my own children in church and enjoying the time in worship where no one was pulling on me. Mine are 15 and 12 now and sometimes it's just not worth the battle and they stay home, particularly if spouse is on call and they would be at the church with me for 6 hours on a Sunday. It feels like a failure on my part, but I try to honor their personalities and needs as well.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14710344.post-17366412403128387722011-04-27T12:20:19.571-04:002011-04-27T12:20:19.571-04:00I get this. I believe that children can learn spi...I get this. I believe that children can learn spiritual practice and faith formation in Sunday School during worship--if the service isn't intergenerational, then it's not really all that fair to children or parents to suffer through it! <br />We have children worship wiht congregation for about twenty minutes, have a children's story, and then they go to SS. In Sunday School, they have a worship time, offering, and then a story/activities. <br /><br />I also love the Heavenly Sunshine idea that MB links to--revkjarlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03516266924883899536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14710344.post-67567426739723209532011-04-27T09:37:28.731-04:002011-04-27T09:37:28.731-04:00As an Episcopal priest I love having kids in worsh...As an Episcopal priest I love having kids in worship. As a mom who has sat in the pews with my kids, trying to worship (before ordination) and then lead worship with kids in the pews following ordination, I have lived on many sides of this issue. I have found that it's useful to have a both/and approach: from Sept - early June offer a children's liturgy of the word time and then bring them in for Eucharist. Parents can choose to let their kids stay in worship or go to the children's worship. In the summer have a shorter service with everyone in attendance and offer just a brief, 5 minute reflection instead of a big sermon. This has worked well and offers everyone a little bit of both approaches. But it's not as great of an option for churches that don't celebrate a weekly eucharist.<br /><br />Thank you for a thought-provoking post.Terrihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15667178624061122421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14710344.post-30124818088317426912011-04-27T09:04:25.248-04:002011-04-27T09:04:25.248-04:00Thank you for your honesty! In my previous life (b...Thank you for your honesty! In my previous life (before I was a pastor) I used to joke that I lost my religion just getting my three young boys ready for church. I thanked God for children's church so that I could worship in peace. In our case the children left after about 10 minutes so they were there for part of service but at least I could enjoy the scripture and sermon. There is something to be said for having a separate place available for those who want to take advatage of it. There is no easy answer to this but like many things in life I believe in having a choice so that you can do what works for your family.Kathy Symeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18177572175277588788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14710344.post-4732966934341819822011-04-27T08:17:28.685-04:002011-04-27T08:17:28.685-04:00I put up the post,
and now I tell you what I thin...I put up the post, <br /><a href="http://marybethbutler.typepad.com/terrapin_station/2011/04/ive-not-dealt-with-this-im-not-a-pastor-and-i-met-my-younger-stepson-when-he-was-8-by-which-time-he-was-already-sure-he-ha.html" rel="nofollow">and now I tell you what I think.</a><br /><br />You're welcome! :)Mary Bethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02970052534402740820noreply@blogger.com