tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14710344.post2808789180723716258..comments2023-11-03T05:46:44.728-04:00Comments on RevGalBlogPals: Ask the Matriarch - How Can We Do This Well?Stephanie Anthony/She Revhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10089531643725874239noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14710344.post-39293430391018692952011-12-10T10:18:50.710-05:002011-12-10T10:18:50.710-05:00And to add apol's if my attempt at humour was ...And to add apol's if my attempt at humour was unhelpful ... I forget tone is hard to detect online.Nikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03500372331937107264noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14710344.post-70797621013721100272011-12-09T23:28:44.721-05:002011-12-09T23:28:44.721-05:00Anonymous, I'm sorry it souned to you like a s...Anonymous, I'm sorry it souned to you like a slap in the face. I didn't mean it that way.<br /><br />Songbird, I wasn't frustrated at a person as much as frustrated at trying to work out acronyms all the time, not necessarily here, but everywhere. I would eventually have asked here for enlightenment. Thanks.<br /><br />I apologize to the whole list if I'm the reason discussion slowed down (stopped?) on this subject.<br /><br />Nik, thanks for helping me see "N" as a truncated "and" ---> 'n' for short.Bonnie Jacobshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07813549471704485150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14710344.post-28807259295054023782011-12-09T16:07:11.327-05:002011-12-09T16:07:11.327-05:00just dropping by to express my thanks for this exp...just dropping by to express my thanks for this exploration of the subject and especially Muthah+'s adroit use of the term "troglodyte"... it has made my afternoon, entirely.Crimson Ramblerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13020190454645032359noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14710344.post-81649379892074796552011-12-09T14:43:17.742-05:002011-12-09T14:43:17.742-05:00A suggestion from the moderator: when we're po...A suggestion from the moderator: when we're posting on topics that are already potentially challenging or divisive, let's cut each other some slack, especially at this festive--ahem--season of the year. And if you have a question about an acronym, try asking it here. Someone will be sure to know the answer. Thanks!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08235049965406944684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14710344.post-18204360715419458732011-12-09T14:28:33.454-05:002011-12-09T14:28:33.454-05:00I'm sorry my use of an acronym was so annoying...I'm sorry my use of an acronym was so annoying. I was responding to Sharon, who is also a United Church of Christ pastor, and used our denomination's shorthand. But did my use of it merit the equivalent of a slap in the face?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14710344.post-82057768036491331962011-12-09T12:39:25.698-05:002011-12-09T12:39:25.698-05:00Bonnie - I too was a little puzzled by the ONA acr...Bonnie - I too was a little puzzled by the ONA acronym... I worked out the O for open and the A for affirming... but puzzled re the N... so came up with <br /><br />Open 'n Affirming ;pNikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03500372331937107264noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14710344.post-90358686788854837982011-12-08T19:37:22.134-05:002011-12-08T19:37:22.134-05:00I hate acronyms. I looked back through all that w...I hate acronyms. I looked back through all that was written here, trying to figure out what Anonymous meant by ONA. Nothing. I googled "acronymn ONA" and got nurses associations in Oklahoma, Ontario, and Oregon. Finally, noting the "we are UCC" part, I googled "UCC ONA" and discovered ONA means "open and affirming." It does? How was I supposed to guess that when the words start with OAA?<br /><br />Having chosen to affiliate with an inclusive congregation after I retired, I was willing to go searching for ONA so I would know what we're talking about. But if we want people to stay with us on this, it would help to be clear and either explain our acronymns or use terms everyone knows.Bonnie Jacobshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07813549471704485150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14710344.post-46950475965477802202011-12-08T14:43:56.341-05:002011-12-08T14:43:56.341-05:00Thanks for this conversation!
If you have a lot o...Thanks for this conversation!<br /><br />If you have a lot of straight evangelicals in your congregation, this book by InverVarsity Press is EXCELLENT:<br /><br />Love Is an Orientation: Elevating the Conversation with the Gay Community by Andrew Marin<br />Permalink: http://amzn.com/0830836268<br /><br />He is not as progressive as I am, but that is an asset... The Marin Foundation is able to bridge the gap by remaining agnostic on whether homosexuality is a sin but emphasizing hospitality and evangelism.<br /><br />If your community can build consensus about an ethic of welcome, then I pray that we can move to becoming fully open & affirming later. The first step seems to be the hardest...La Peregrinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16801672904884811424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14710344.post-7687343405440928482011-12-08T12:28:09.549-05:002011-12-08T12:28:09.549-05:00What Suzy said is what I was going for when I sugg...What Suzy said is what I was going for when I suggested having a safe church policy in place. I totally agree that safe church (slash) child sexual abuse <i>SHOULD NOT</i> be linked with LGBT participation and leadership in the church, but it will be more likely to come up in a conversation about widening the welcome if there is <i>NOT</i> already a safeguard policy in place. <br /><br />The question, in a broader sense, was how to be more welcoming as a congregation. IMHO, a safe church policy is essential to a ministry of welcoming ALL people into the congregation, especially those who might be otherwise (irrationally) feared or fearful -- including (for example) homeless people, people who own guns, people with illnesses, feminists, etc.!Sharonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00664886080822930195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14710344.post-8047233351769749902011-12-08T12:01:40.592-05:002011-12-08T12:01:40.592-05:00Re the Safe Church policy, I was very glad to have...Re the Safe Church policy, I was very glad to have it in place when this issue first arose in my church because I was able to point to our policies and say, "We have a SC policy; this doesn't raise additional concerns." So I agree with those who say the two issues should not be linked, but anyone leading a congregation into LGBT issues for the first time surely knows that someone likely will link them. Be ready to just take child sexual abuse off the table.<br /><br />I also agree that it's easier to introduce people than issues. When our first same-sex couple began attending our newly reorganized church, it was immediately obvious that they were two whole, complex people with many gifts to share. That helped the inevitable discussions proceed far differently than if we'd been talking about a hypothetical person.<br /><br />I have had to say more than once, "It is not the task of the church to keep people away from God," but in a "new" church, hospitality was an interesting beast, because there was no one with an ownership stake to be hospitable. We were all on the same footing, and that was very good. Everyone had the right to worship. No one had the right to decide who was in and who was out.<br /><br />I apologize in advance if I've not made myself clear about fully supporting LGBT participation. My intent was to say that I've seen my calling as clearing "crap" out of the way.Suzynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14710344.post-37281943452442548312011-12-08T11:43:39.004-05:002011-12-08T11:43:39.004-05:00I just wanted to second Anon and Nik concerning th...I just wanted to second Anon and Nik concerning the joining of discussions about being open and affirming of LGBTQ folks with discussions about child protection policies. I wholeheartedly believe both need to be discussed, but as a lesbian, those discussions tied together immediately send me to this thought: "oh if we're going to welcome queer folks, we need to ease the congregations worries about them harming the children..."<br /><br />Now if your approach is "how do we as a church, who cherish the spiritual practice of hospitality, seek to be a safe and welcoming place for all people?" ...then I can completely see how those topics, as well as a plethora of others, would easily have a conversation devoted to them.noehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13666972977958724048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14710344.post-3406970818352119042011-12-08T11:28:47.988-05:002011-12-08T11:28:47.988-05:00Here's a resource for you:
The Bishop of the ...Here's a resource for you:<br /><br />The Bishop of the Oregon Synod of the ELCA recently did a presentation to a group of congregations called "Hope, Hospitality, and Homosexuality." It's available online here: http://www.oregonsynod.org/bookoffaith/hhh/<br /><br />It's an hour and a half long, but it's very good about looking at both how we read the Bible in general, about how we navigate differences between our culture and the culture of the Bible, and how being hospitable to others (including homosexual people) fits in with our witness as Christians.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14710344.post-67080848253997197282011-12-08T11:14:03.800-05:002011-12-08T11:14:03.800-05:00I too thank you for raising this question; my pari...I too thank you for raising this question; my parish NEEDS to have this discussion, but I am not sure we are ready. When I was called the search committee and vestry let me know directly and indirectly that this has NOT been an inclusive place--in fact was the opposite. I let them know that if I were their priest, we WOULD be open and inclusive, and they called me anyway. They've heard me preach in ways that make it clear where I stand on the matter, and I've had a parishioner come out to me. I've heard some positive comments about my approach to this, but I know that I am still treading on tender ground. I think we are still in the "laying the foundation" stage, but at some point I hope we move on.Rev Dr Momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14686528826414330355noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14710344.post-89334244001326436822011-12-08T08:10:43.552-05:002011-12-08T08:10:43.552-05:00Agree with Anon. re. the linking of what we in the...Agree with Anon. re. the linking of what we in the CofS refer to as 'Safeguarding' and of a more open/welcoming/inclusive approach. Given the continued mis-perception in some quarters that 'all gays are paedophiles [and in some cases deliberately mischievous policy of misinformation aimed to keep this the case - nowt like fear to discourage folk interacting with each other], to re-emphasise/ or introduce child protection polices at the same time as the move to inclusion of LGBT folk has the unfortunate effect of subconsciously planting a niggling seed of doubt about 'these' people.<br /><br />That said...re. welcome:<br />*sigh* at this point of time in the CofS, I'm getting to the point where just not being called an abomination unto the Lord is a positive. :(Nikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03500372331937107264noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14710344.post-62277849783319483822011-12-08T07:36:19.131-05:002011-12-08T07:36:19.131-05:00While I agree that we all ought to have a Safe Chu...While I agree that we all ought to have a Safe Church policy in place, do we really want/need to connect these two issues so directly? Isn't that encouraging homophobia? I'm concerned about this because I serve a church in which there is a bizarre, visceral response to the idea of even talking about ONA. We are UCC (and I am choosing to post this anonymously on purpose), and although the denomination has been talking about ONA for decades, there is nothing in our polity that presses local churches to do so. I've been involved in two ONA processes previously, both which went well. But in this church, people who would identify themselves as liberal on this issue go absolutely APE over the suggestion we ought to talk about it. My concern is that they are protecting someone (or more than one) they fear will be outed as soon as there is a conversation. A few reactive people have closed down the discussion when it has been suggested in a Deacons meeting and in a larger Visioning retreat. This is very disappointing and worrying to me, because there is clearly something going on beneath the surface and I don't know what it is exactly.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com