tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14710344.post2961808935976909366..comments2023-11-03T05:46:44.728-04:00Comments on RevGalBlogPals: Ask the Matriarch - Wedding ExpectationsStephanie Anthony/She Revhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10089531643725874239noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14710344.post-74243265036680224562012-06-08T23:45:42.708-04:002012-06-08T23:45:42.708-04:00Like Earthchick, I served as an interim pastor for...Like Earthchick, I served as an interim pastor for a church with a long history of a wedding ministry, which allowed for others to officiate, and even allowed non-Christian services (this is a congregation with a wide view of God's work in the world). They had a lot of variation, and I know some of the services I didn't do I wouldn't have felt comfortable doing, so I was relieved that I was out of the picture.<br /><br />Our area also has a large number of young adults who meet and do not have a faith community, and the congregation sees the use of the space as a hospitality (the world coming to their door). IL think the challenges can come when the couple wants things the clergy is not comfortable providing - are we hired hands or spiritual leaders? <br /><br />In our area, the vast majority of weddings are conducted outside of churches, and even those that have clergy are often specialized clergy, some of whom tweak and tinker their services to these couples, so that for the most part, we parish clergy are not on the front lines for doing these services.<br /><br />I'd like to add my AMEN to the one who posted about wanting civil marriages with church blessings. The only reason we do this is that King Henry VIII gave to his clergy the review of who could get married among the nobles, and this tradition came down to us in common law. The Dutch sensibly marry in civil court, then come on Sunday for blessing during the service. I could get on that train, and then all the controversy about gay marriage in the church would be taken away.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14710344.post-21368166305866074982012-06-08T15:27:32.329-04:002012-06-08T15:27:32.329-04:00@Robin, briefly the unity candle is symbolic of tw...@Robin, briefly the unity candle is symbolic of two becoming one. Two tapers (lit before the ceremony, often by parents) are used by the bride and groom to light one central candle. And when couples want such candles, *I* insist that they do not blow out the individual candles after lighting the central candle. I don't find them inappropriate to a Christian wedding, and in my context, they are as much a tradition as a white dress on the bride.Anna Sorensonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12282584909692804697noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14710344.post-13358783775013968422012-06-08T10:44:09.897-04:002012-06-08T10:44:09.897-04:00Just want to add that I don't mean to be dismi...Just want to add that I don't mean to be dismissive of churches who choose to be open to hosting weddings for people who are not associated with the church, nor of clergy who choose to participate in non-religious services. And my use of the term "wedding chapel" <i>does</i> in fact evoke images of Vegas because (again in my experience) there are those who would like to treat churches <i>just</i>as one more attractive venue among others, and that can be inappropriate. I do realize that there are some non-church-affiliated couples who are seeking a religious/spiritual beginning for their marriage and I respect that. <br /><br />My objection to unity candles is simply this: our Prayer Book provides a beautiful liturgy based on the couple making vows to one another before God, and the candles are not part of that. Make that part of the reception if you like--it could lovely symbolism for that part of the celebration.Rev Dr Momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14686528826414330355noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14710344.post-46319630865198278292012-06-08T08:58:51.234-04:002012-06-08T08:58:51.234-04:00Here's my story of a couple who asked to use o...Here's my story of a couple who asked to use our church for their wedding, bringing in their own minister. (Their church is in a large space that looks like a conference center.)<br /><br />Our form is very specific about capacity, and the fact that our balcony is off-limits for guests. They violated both these with excess capacity and about 30 people in the balcony. Their pastor then proceeded to tell my sexton that our theology stinks-- regarding gays, women pastors, inclusiveness generally. And, of course I am a gay woman pastor.<br /><br />The whole experience left me feeling very violated. Our church will not quickly approve such a request in the future.Rev. Patricia Raubehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06135817205490086193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14710344.post-42523006714093757492012-06-08T08:08:31.736-04:002012-06-08T08:08:31.736-04:00Could someone explain the whole unity candle thing...Could someone explain the whole unity candle thing to me? I am celebrating my first wedding next month and I am so ill-informed about weddings in general . . . well, let's just say that the learning curve is a steep one. But unity candles: why do some couples want them, and what is the objection?Robinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01898073277524952683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14710344.post-47089530511162473542012-06-08T04:22:52.731-04:002012-06-08T04:22:52.731-04:00We in general don't have problems with a minis...We in general don't have problems with a minister of our own denomination or another that we have a friendly relationship with using our building - as long as we're asked nicely in advance. We've had this the other way round. We discovered wet rot in the floor of our old sanctuary a month before a wedding. The local Roman Catholic parish (we're baptists!) kindly and graciously not only offered us the use of their building for our Sunday services, but also for the wedding. The priest attended the ceremony and said a little word of welcome, then our pastor officiated.<br /><br />I grew up in an architecturally beautiful church that had a strict policy, as a matter of practicality, because otherwise the minister would have been doing 5 weddings a week, mostly of non-church people. The policy was applied strictly to non-church people, and flexibly to regular attenders and their children. (Part of the policy was that our minister - Presbyterian - wasn't available for non-Church ceremonies - mostly just to protect him from overload. But when my sister decided that she didn't want to get married in the church building out of respect for her Chinese fiancé's Shinto relatives, she was surprised and touched when he contacted her to make it clear that he would make an exception for her. They had a lovely Christian but slightly informal service in the conservatory of a local hotel. They did the usual pre-wedding prep with the minister.)<br /><br />(Our pastor also apparently regularly gets calls from people who don't fit into the Catholic church's rules for marriage - divorcees presumably - to ask him to officiate. He doesn't usually, unless the couple are willing to do marriage preparation with him and the priest knows about it, if they are active in a parish.)<br /><br />In general I think policies are great - but knowing how much discretion you have, and when to be flexible, is also a good thing.Alison-in-Francenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14710344.post-68241159606635264312012-06-08T02:14:42.340-04:002012-06-08T02:14:42.340-04:00a different marriage system here. the marriage cel...a different marriage system here. the marriage celebrant has to register the marriage with the Government department, so you have to be 'approved'. you can be either a civil or religious celebrant. as a Minister I am a religious celebrant, which means I can only conduct weddings in the way my denomination approves - because my registration is via the denomination. my denomination says I can celebrate a wedding anywhere, but it must be Christian [which still leaves a fair amount of scope].<br /><br />I am careful about allowing other Ministers to celebrate weddings in the church here. my guideline is that the understanding of marriage - such as equality of wife and husband - is within the understanding of this denomination. Another minister of this denomination has married a couple here , who he met through campus ministry, and this church is near where the families live.a pearl downunderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08850537216717300189noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14710344.post-39633747451863603542012-06-07T16:04:17.078-04:002012-06-07T16:04:17.078-04:00I am lurker around here as I do not have a blog, b...I am lurker around here as I do not have a blog, but did have a great time on one of the revgal cruises! My question is a lil' off topic but I'm wondering about the kinds of premarital counseling materials folks are using? I've been hit and miss and am looking for new ideas. Thanks a bunch!Lizhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15055697731949236599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14710344.post-29675009616042557302012-06-07T13:54:27.520-04:002012-06-07T13:54:27.520-04:00Our present church does not rent out the sanctuary...Our present church does not rent out the sanctuary to anyone who does not utilize one of the clergy (there being 3 of us; I am ordained but work as a chaplain and am not on the payroll.) We also have a retired pastor who is part of our congregation who has performed a wedding or two for relatives. Our church also hosts smaller churches (usually of another ethnicity and language) and their congregants may have their pastor perform the ceremony. We do not allow people who are neither attenders nor counselees of pastoral staff get married here. It's difficult because we are close to several large hotels (for receptions) in a large metro area. "But you're so convenient!" is not a good reason; and neither is "our church is too small."<br /><br />The policy was set by the leadership of the church (lay and ordained). It also spells out what can and can't be done (no temporary removal of pews so there is "more room" etc). There is a fee for the use of the building, a fee for the sexton, and if any additional rooms are needed, there is an additional fee. There is also a hefty security deposit which is returned after the wedding party leaves and a walk-through is done with someone of the bride's choice (usually their wedding coordinator or a relative.) <br /><br />Theologically, we make an effort to explain that this is not just "a place" and "an event" but it has a deep spiritual significance, one that we take seriously. Premarital counseling is required, if not with us, with someone we know. For people who are spiritual and not religious, there are many beautiful places to get married. I attended one in a public park at a large auditorium, which was made into a holy and sacred space. I think it is possible to be hospitable AND stay within your theological boundaries.Debhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12169805543154662247noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14710344.post-22809591179998277002012-06-07T13:07:47.911-04:002012-06-07T13:07:47.911-04:00Earthchick, as a non-parish tentmaker and someone ...Earthchick, as a non-parish tentmaker and someone whose first, lifechanging step into ordained ministry was witnessing the vows of the many spiritual but not religious couples who do not have a safe and welcoming church home--but wanted the God of their understanding to be part of their life commitment--I am profoundly grateful for your honor for them and for those of us who are honored to serve them....It is a huge and most welcome contrast to the usual dismissive scorn from those with pulpits and paychecks. How wonderful that your congregation is so open and respectful as well for those who dream of having a minister special to them hold the sacred space for their love.Dr. Laura Marie Grimeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10372741914558791844noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14710344.post-25998279747178665372012-06-07T11:46:39.266-04:002012-06-07T11:46:39.266-04:00Hmm, the notion of "wedding chapel" evok...Hmm, the notion of "wedding chapel" evokes Vegas-type images and feels a bit dismissive. I view what our church offers to be part of our ministry of hospitality, and I'm pleased that we do it; I see no loss of integrity in what we do. Then again, I'm not Episcopalian, and our polity is quite different from the majority viewpoint expressed so far.<br /><br />I have also participated in "non-religious" weddings in other venues. I think the reasons a couple would ask a pastor to officiate in such a case are complex, and I am intrigued and honored when such a couple requests pastoral involvement. I have found that it's an opportunity to offer Christ in a less obvious but surprisingly expansive way. <br /><br />Julie, I appreciate the perspective you've offered, and I think your point about potentially offering two sets of policies is a good one.earthchickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12447310443886956100noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14710344.post-60477758284695509212012-06-07T10:51:45.875-04:002012-06-07T10:51:45.875-04:00Mompriest and Muthah+ pretty much covered the Epis...Mompriest and Muthah+ pretty much covered the Episcopal perspective; for the most part our churches are not wedding chapels to be rented out [some parishes do choose to do this but ime still have a pretty strong set of rules to be followed]. I am also pretty strict about music, flowers, etc. (no unity candles in the ceremony.) I would say no if someone came in and wanted to just use the space with their own clergy person (as I did to someone who wanted to use our space to do a baptism with their own clergy person.)<br /><br />To be honest, I am more often approached about doing weddings in other venues, some of which I find rather inappropriate, and where I have far less control over what happens. I'm not unflexible, but I'm also not a wedding chaplain for hire to do whatever (often trendy and made-up)liturgy the bride wants. So I say no to those things too. Also to "non-religious" weddings; if you don't want God to be part of it, why do you ask a priest to officiate?Rev Dr Momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14686528826414330355noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14710344.post-72448743357567710762012-06-07T09:49:17.589-04:002012-06-07T09:49:17.589-04:00Great topic for discussion! I am church lay staff,...Great topic for discussion! I am church lay staff, mother of a summer bride, and also mother of a female clergy-person so I find myself immersed in this discussion a lot right now. My clergy-woman daughter will be participating in the wedding of her sister the bride, in the church the bride and her fiance attend in the town where they live. The priest of that (RC)parish will actually perform the ceremony and sister will give the homily. <br /><br />Next summer my clergy-woman daughter will perform the wedding of her best high school friend at the church where I work, and where they both grew up - the pastor they both grew up with having retired since they left home. Under the policies of our denomination the current pastor will also participate and the retired pastor will be an honored guest who will probably bless the couple in some fashion at the reception. Another young woman from the congregation is choosing to have her fall wedding off-site to allow the retired clergy to officiate, a decision that caused some pain for a young woman who had always assumed she would be married in the church where she grew up.<br /><br />In each of these situations the desire for a specific clergy-person is in no way a sign of disrespect for the church or the clergy-in-residence, it is a reflection of connections that are part of each bride or groom's faith journey. And in each case the pre-marital counseling is being done by the local clergy, establishing a new and joint connection to a faith mentor. <br /><br />I know that policies not rigidly enforced are useless and that once a congregation reaches a certain size it cannot function without policies, yet I wonder if there could be two sets of rules, one for members that affirms their faith journey while reinforcing their connections to the current situation and one for people who are not members but who need to be welcomed with as few barriers as possible, except perhaps in the requirement that a church wedding ultimately glorify God.<br /><br />It's a complicated question; I look forward to the discussion!Julie Huke Klockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06440787934142331627noreply@blogger.com