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Jeff Fisher: It's the Bay Point School, stupid!
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johan helge (134 posts) Thu Nov-11-04 09:33 PM
Original message
Jeff Fisher: It's the Bay Point School, stupid!
From http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1106-30.htm :
"When I spoke with Jeff Fisher this morning (Saturday, November 06, 2004), the Democratic candidate for the U.S. House of Representatives from Florida's 16th District said he was waiting for the FBI to show up. Fisher has evidence, he says, not only that the Florida election was hacked, but of who hacked it and how."
From http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ElectionFraud2004 / (a link on Jeff Fisher's website):
"Bay Point School is a juvenile correctional facility in the Miami area. Information has been given to the Washington Post that the Miami school is a suspected training ground in computer science and programming for juvenile delinquents who have trained in the art of manipulating electronic voting, without a true audit trail. It is believed that this activity is taking place not only there but in several schools like the aforementioned one nationwide. If true, then Bay Point School could be the Florida connection. It is possible as many as six states election results have been altered by recruits from this school."
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Replies to this thread
Wha??? JohnnyCougar Nov-11-04 09:38 PM #1
Has he lost his mind??? NJ_Lib Nov-11-04 09:40 PM #4
Not good PATRICK Nov-11-04 09:39 PM #2
yes and Mel Sembler seemslikeadream Nov-11-04 09:39 PM #3
Some background on Sembler BlackVelvet04 Nov-11-04 10:17 PM #15
WTF?? Interesting... Weird... Sembler's not a good guy... Bonescrat Nov-11-04 11:47 PM #29
Sembler's not a good guy - you got that right seemslikeadream Nov-11-04 11:54 PM #32
Hi Bonescrat!! newyawker99 Nov-12-04 06:45 PM #37
Did Sembler study business with Bush? lwfern Nov-12-04 07:18 PM #39
Semlers/Straight Foundation sued multiple times for abuse Carolab Nov-12-04 07:30 PM #41
Troll???? nt/ Carolab Nov-12-04 07:30 PM #42
Link to another topic on Fisher Carl Brennan Nov-11-04 11:05 PM #23
On The Surface, This Seems Like Total Bunk Tace Nov-11-04 09:43 PM #5
I tend to agree Eloriel Nov-11-04 09:47 PM #6
Agree bleever Nov-11-04 09:49 PM #9
Eloriel could you read this seemslikeadream Nov-11-04 09:52 PM #10
Okay, I read it Eloriel Nov-11-04 11:26 PM #26
post #8 seemslikeadream Nov-11-04 11:28 PM #27
Good point txindy Nov-11-04 11:51 PM #30
Mmm... Woo Nov-11-04 09:47 PM #7
Hi Woo!! newyawker99 Nov-12-04 06:46 PM #38
This is a press release from Vote Fraud.org andBlack Box Voting.org seemslikeadream Nov-11-04 09:47 PM #8
What the ??? This is bizarre. midwest voter Nov-11-04 10:10 PM #11
It may be a brilliant tactic in that no one would believe it plausible. ElementaryPenguin Nov-12-04 07:53 PM #44
Dammit...It sounds like this Fisher guy is crazy JohnnyCougar Nov-11-04 10:10 PM #12
As Eloriel remarked higher up, it has a Rovish stink to it. hedda_foil Nov-11-04 10:15 PM #14
Pretty outrageous but... jsascj Nov-11-04 10:14 PM #13
Strange... if it is so crazy, why is the FBI still investigating... jsamuel Nov-11-04 10:19 PM #16
Gee, the FBI is moving fast. peabody71 Nov-11-04 10:19 PM #17
Bizarre to say the least.... BlackVelvet04 Nov-11-04 10:23 PM #18
I can head the smirking news anchors now... scotjohn Nov-11-04 10:24 PM #19
exactly...this whole thing could blow up in our face JohnnyCougar Nov-11-04 10:27 PM #20
It does not have to be the repubs who stole the election. If the votes add wlubin Nov-11-04 10:31 PM #21
agreed...this is so far fetched.. BREMPRO Nov-13-04 05:38 PM #52
This story sounds wacko bklyncowgirl Nov-11-04 10:31 PM #22
What do WE have to do with it? NJ_Lib Nov-11-04 11:11 PM #24
Oh, that's a good angle, NJ_Lib. I didn't think about that. After all, TexasChick Nov-11-04 11:15 PM #25
Exactly, txindy Nov-11-04 11:53 PM #31
Yep. Sounds pretty crazy. lizzy Nov-11-04 11:28 PM #28
I don't think they'd need to er, silence them. noserotonin Nov-12-04 05:51 AM #35
That's just setting off my BS detector. n/t crispini Nov-11-04 11:56 PM #33
If these kids were that trainable... confrontationclaws Nov-11-04 11:56 PM #34
I smell a smokescreen crickets Nov-12-04 08:36 AM #36
Maybe Not IAMREALITY Nov-12-04 07:23 PM #40
would you trust a juvenile delinquent to to keep a secret? BREMPRO Nov-13-04 05:33 PM #51
May seem crazy at a glance - but I have a hunch it may be true. Read this ElementaryPenguin Nov-12-04 07:35 PM #43
Hmmm, very interesting, ElementaryPenguin. n/t TexasChick Nov-12-04 07:59 PM #45
Well, there's no way we can verify this. pointsoflight Nov-13-04 04:56 PM #50
Odd Sembler - Jeb connection lwfern Nov-13-04 03:41 PM #46
from your link seemslikeadream Nov-13-04 04:22 PM #47
Google Bay Point School DoYouEverWonder Nov-13-04 04:40 PM #48
Now I get it! The right is anti-choice, but pro abortion. nt Oak2004 Nov-13-04 04:51 PM #49
JohnnyCougar (1000+ posts) Thu Nov-11-04 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
1. Wha???
That seems too far out to me. Could it really be???
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NJ_Lib (1000+ posts) Thu Nov-11-04 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Has he lost his mind???
Well, this is a different angle... WTF?
Is this a joke?
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PATRICK (1000+ posts) Thu Nov-11-04 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
2. Not good
Money from an anonymous source and this is a dead end as far as linkage goes. Not enough dots for a kindergarten media.
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seemslikeadream (1000+ posts) Thu Nov-11-04 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
3. yes and Mel Sembler
has other schools, doesn't he?
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BlackVelvet04 (1000+ posts) Thu Nov-11-04 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #3
15. Some background on Sembler
Sembler's work as a civic and political activist is equally noteworthy. A supporter of George H.W. Bush since 1979, Sembler played a leadership role in raising funds for the Bush for President campaign. He was Finance Co-Chairman of The American Bicentennial Presidential Inaugural, raising the dollars needed for the nation's 41st inauguration of the President of the United States.
Although best known as a leading shopping center developer, Sembler is also renowned for his activism in the anti-drug movement. In 1976, Sembler and his wife Betty founded STRAIGHT, an adolescent drug treatment program. During its 17 years of existence, STRAIGHT successfully graduated more than 12,000 young people nationwide from its remarkable program.
Sembler served as Finance Chairman for the Republican National Committee from 1997 to 2000.
http://sembler.com/MelSembler.php
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Bonescrat (133 posts) Thu Nov-11-04 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #15
29. WTF?? Interesting... Weird... Sembler's not a good guy...
For what it's worth, a link to a "Sembler's not a good guy..." page
http://thestraights.com/introduction2.htm
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seemslikeadream (1000+ posts) Thu Nov-11-04 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. Sembler's not a good guy - you got that right
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newyawker99 (1000+ posts) Fri Nov-12-04 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #29
37. Hi Bonescrat!!
Welcome to DU!!
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lwfern (1000+ posts) Fri Nov-12-04 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #15
39. Did Sembler study business with Bush?
"Yesterday, the Tampa City Council signed a check for another big mortgage payment for strip mall developer and Corporate Welfare Daddy Mel Sembler’s generic failure of a mall known as Centro Ybor.
..The February payment, about $300,000, will come from Community Development Block Grant funds, city officials said.
... The city is scrambling to come up with money because Centro Ybor, the shopping complex that was supposed to drive the revitalization of Ybor City, defaulted on its loans and sought a bailout. ... If developers couldn't make the payments, the city promised it would. It pledged dollars intended for low-income housing and community development.
Over the next 14 years, the total price tag, with interest, will be more than $16-million."
http://www.blogwood.com/archives/000576.html
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Carolab (1000+ posts) Fri Nov-12-04 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #15
41. Semlers/Straight Foundation sued multiple times for abuse
Child abuse cases in their "faith-based teen treatment centers".
These people are BAD, bad, bad.
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Carolab (1000+ posts) Fri Nov-12-04 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #15
42. Troll???? nt/
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Carl Brennan (1000+ posts) Thu Nov-11-04 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #3
23. Link to another topic on Fisher
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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Tace (1000+ posts) Thu Nov-11-04 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
5. On The Surface, This Seems Like Total Bunk
Edited on Thu Nov-11-04 09:52 PM by Tace
It looks like a red herring. Be careful before you take the bait.
On Edit: The reason I say this is because it wouldn't take more than a few talented (yet corrupt) persons to do what it looks like was done in the 2004 election. Also, it would be imperative that as few persons as possible know about the fraud. So it doesn't make any sense to trust hundreds of ambitious teenagers to keep their mouths shut about fraud in a US presidential election.
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Eloriel (1000+ posts) Thu Nov-11-04 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. I tend to agree
Edited on Thu Nov-11-04 09:49 PM by Eloriel
First and most important, they don't NEED some juvenile delinquents when they have insiders at the voting machine companies who know exactly what they're doing and can accomplish it in a flash, in realtime, via modem.
Second, it wouldn't be unlike the Roves of the world to set up just such a thing as a distraction -- either a REAL distraction (IOW, a lie) or a partial distraction, yes, here are your thieves and you needn't look further.
Third, it just strikes me, at a gut level, as specious and spurious. I'll withhold final judgment, but I just don't trust this story.
Edited: OTOH, if this school and others DO have computer training programs, I might be inclined to look a little further -- but NOT at the expense of all the rest of what went on or looking a LOT further into the companies themselves.
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bleever (1000+ posts) Thu Nov-11-04 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Agree
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seemslikeadream (1000+ posts) Thu Nov-11-04 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Eloriel could you read this
starting at #22
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
and what about the press release from Vote Fraud.org and Black Box Voting.org
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Eloriel (1000+ posts) Thu Nov-11-04 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #10
26. Okay, I read it
Good work, as always. But your information doesn't touch the computer science / vote hacking angle. I don't doubt Sembler and others are scum of the earth....
I haven't seen the press releases (I don't think). Got a link?
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seemslikeadream (1000+ posts) Thu Nov-11-04 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. post #8
Edited on Thu Nov-11-04 11:39 PM by seemslikeadream
and Randi Rhodes was talking about him also, seemed to be standing up for him.
Thom Hartmann writing about him.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1106-30.htm
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txindy (1000+ posts) Thu Nov-11-04 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #5
30. Good point
Particularly talented teenagers in a special juvenile facility.
It doesn't feel right. I'd let Fisher pursue this one on his own. He's working with the FBI. I wouldn't join him in any of this. Not without a WHOLE lot more info. and a great deal of substantial evidence.
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Woo (181 posts) Thu Nov-11-04 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
7. Mmm...
Yep -- this Fisher story/theory is out there flying with Mister Spacely -- not that I'm saying that it couldn't happen -- I was all excited when I first heard about someone with proof -- then I read the article and it managed to get a large 'uh - huh' out of me.
That being said -- I've been wrong before and I'll be the first to say 'I told you so' when they round up a bunch of juvenile delinquents trained in high tech crimes... it could happen.
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newyawker99 (1000+ posts) Fri Nov-12-04 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #7
38. Hi Woo!!
Welcome to DU!!
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seemslikeadream (1000+ posts) Thu Nov-11-04 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
8. This is a press release from Vote Fraud.org andBlack Box Voting.org
Correct?
Cover-Up Of 2000 And 2004
Florida Vote Continues
Press Release
Vote Fraud.org
Black Box Voting.org
11-1-4
A senatorial candidate in the 2004 election is suspected of suppressing vital information regarding the electronic manipulation of votes in the 2000 elections. This system of fraud, if still in place, can be used again in the 2004 general election this coming Tuesday, November 2.
Dr. Piotr Blass, a U.S. senatorial candidate in the state of Florida, is reported to be withholding evidence which reveals details regarding the manipulation of votes using the names of individuals who have been placed on the felons list. This is the charge being leveled by Jeff Fisher, who is himself a democratic congressional candidate for Florida's 16th congressional district.
Mr. Fisher believes Dr. Blass is denying the public this crucial evidence in order to protect Joseph Klock, an attorney who facilitated the release of Dr. Blass' son from an abusive treatment center. Mr. Klock was, coincidentally, the attorney for former congresswoman Katherine Harris who was the Secretary of State during the contested 2000 Florida recount which helped put George W. Bush in the White House.
"Dr. Blass obtained this information when he was on the staff at Bay Point School," Fisher stated. Bay Point School is a juvenile correctional facility in the Miami area. "I was told the school is a suspected training ground in computer science and programming for juvenile delinquents who manipulate electronic voting, without a true audit trail. It is believed that this activity is taking place not only there but in several schools like these nationwide. If true, then Bay Point School could be the Florida connection."
more
http://rense.com/general59/FLORID.HTM
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Verve (1000+ posts) Thu Nov-11-04 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. What the ??? This is bizarre.
If there is even a remote possibility that this story has some truth to it--Would you trust juvenile delinquents to alter the votes without it looking obvious? Did they take statistic classes as well?
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ElementaryPenguin (1000+ posts) Fri Nov-12-04 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #11
44. It may be a brilliant tactic in that no one would believe it plausible.
But these people are capable of anything - and I discount nothing. Fisher may be telling the whole truth like any of us here would be. BBV and FBI investigating...this could actually be real.
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JohnnyCougar (1000+ posts) Thu Nov-11-04 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Dammit...It sounds like this Fisher guy is crazy
No one's gonna buy that story. Unless for some wierd reason truth is stranger than fiction.
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hedda_foil (1000+ posts) Thu Nov-11-04 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. As Eloriel remarked higher up, it has a Rovish stink to it.
Everything I've heard about Jeff Fischer has been positive, so I certainly don't think he made the story up. But it feels to me like he's been suckered by a Rovian teaser ... like the Bush biographer (Hayworth?) and the Texas National Guard guy who Rove fed the fake documents for CBS to. It's unlikely to be Rove, himself, but perhaps one of his little buddies? Perhaps Fisher's race was rigged, and this story was fed to him to make sure his complaints wouldn't be taken seriously.
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jsascj (425 posts) Thu Nov-11-04 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
13. Pretty outrageous but...
Edited on Thu Nov-11-04 10:17 PM by jsascj
Then Blackwell, Rove et.al. could honestly say THEY did not tamper.
Kind of a 6 degrees of separation thing.
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jsamuel (1000+ posts) Thu Nov-11-04 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
16. Strange... if it is so crazy, why is the FBI still investigating...
I don't know, but if the FBI hasn't said "crazy foot" then maybe...
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peabody71 (1000+ posts) Thu Nov-11-04 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
17. Gee, the FBI is moving fast.
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BlackVelvet04 (1000+ posts) Thu Nov-11-04 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
18. Bizarre to say the least....
but Sembler is an interesting character. He's given BIG BUCKS to the republican party. $100,000 for GHWB's ignauration ball.
Klock is a very powerful guy as well.
I have every idea Fisher is running with big dogs when he should have stayed on the porch.
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scotjohn (19 posts) Thu Nov-11-04 10:24 PM
Response to Original message
19. I can head the smirking news anchors now...
"...Jeff Fisher, a failed Democratic congressional candidate in Florida, called the FBI this week, claiming that a Miami juvenile detention center is actually a secret election fraud headquarters. Fisher claims that Republicans trained these young delinquents to hack into voting machines last Tuesday and steal the election for President Bush..."
(anchor grimaces grotesquely, trying to suppress his/her laughter)
I hope to God that Jeff Fisher's evidence is indisputable here, or Karl Rove will think it's Christmas.
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JohnnyCougar (1000+ posts) Thu Nov-11-04 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. exactly...this whole thing could blow up in our face
No one has produced evidence yet. I have more hope that provisional and absentee ballots will give Kerry the lead in Ohio than any systematic fraud being exposed.
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wlubin (190 posts) Thu Nov-11-04 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. It does not have to be the repubs who stole the election. If the votes add
Edited on Thu Nov-11-04 10:31 PM by wlubin
up differently upon a recount, then the new count sticks, regardless of who stole the votes.
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BREMPRO (235 posts) Sat Nov-13-04 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #19
52. agreed...this is so far fetched..
wait for the indisputable evidence... i doubt rove and company would rely on juvi hackers to do their dirty work, and keep quiet about it.
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bklyncowgirl (1000+ posts) Thu Nov-11-04 10:31 PM
Response to Original message
22. This story sounds wacko
JD hackers fixing the election for the Republicans?
Wouldn't they need to use people who could keep their mouths shut. Any one of those kids could go blabbing to the media once they get out of the slammer.
Unless they were prepared to make sure the kids involved had, shall we say, unfortunate accidents before or shortly after they left the school, this just does not make sense.
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NJ_Lib (1000+ posts) Thu Nov-11-04 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. What do WE have to do with it?
Good luck to him and I hope he does have evidence to back up his claims which by the way, nothing would surprise me anymore... But with all due respect to him, how are WE connected? He's pretty much a lone shark regarding his issue so should he go down, he'll go down alone... Hopefully...
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TexasChick (1000+ posts) Thu Nov-11-04 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Oh, that's a good angle, NJ_Lib. I didn't think about that. After all,
he's not claiming to be with the Kerry campaign. Didn't think about that. I think we should let the FBI investigate, but if it isn't true, I think you're right, it won't hurt us!
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txindy (1000+ posts) Thu Nov-11-04 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #24
31. Exactly,
I said much the same in my earlier post. Fisher is working with the FBI. He's making allegations about both the 2002 and 2000 elections. He's completely independent from what we're looking into in Florida. I wish him luck, but this was never part of our interest there.
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lizzy (1000+ posts) Thu Nov-11-04 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #22
28. Yep. Sounds pretty crazy.
Why in the world would anyone train juveniles to do it?
LOL.
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noserotonin (21 posts) Fri Nov-12-04 05:51 AM
Response to Reply #22
35. I don't think they'd need to er, silence them.
It was true and these kids later said they hacked the election, who would believe them?
No one but the the National Enquirer would even touch such a story...
But I agree, it sure sounds wacko to me.
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crispini (1000+ posts) Thu Nov-11-04 11:56 PM
Response to Original message
33. That's just setting off my BS detector. n/t
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confrontationclaws (57 posts) Thu Nov-11-04 11:56 PM
Response to Original message
34. If these kids were that trainable...
they wouldn't be at Bay Point.
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crickets (1000+ posts) Fri Nov-12-04 08:36 AM
Response to Original message
36. I smell a smokescreen
Edited on Fri Nov-12-04 09:09 AM by crickets
I agree with the Rovian stink assessment. This story seems all too improbable. (I'll take it back if I'm wrong.)
Just about the time something solid (Freeman pdf file) looks like it might gain some legs, this comes along to steal the limelight. Exit polls aren't nearly as sexy - all those pesky numbers. So while serious discussion about the import of the fudged exit polls should be at the forefront, juvenile delinquent hackers will be all the MSM talking heads can talk about.
edit: spelling error
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IAMREALITY (1000+ posts) Fri Nov-12-04 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. Maybe Not
Maybe the Repubs actually used a brilliant strategy. Hey, maybe this story is totally bogus, as that is my initial inclination as well. But what if it was a stroke of genius? Using juvenile delinquents, in a way that the theory would seem so unplausable no one would really buy it?
Hey, even we dems, fighting so hard for Democracy, are so quick to debunk it right? So it is either utter rambling bullshit, or a stroke of repub genius.
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BREMPRO (235 posts) Sat Nov-13-04 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #40
51. would you trust a juvenile delinquent to to keep a secret?
i don't think even the evil empire would rely on a juvi hacker to do their dirty work for them..and keep quiet... unless... they hold something over them.. early release... family... money??? Still don't think this is likely, and may again be a smokescreen alla Rather memo to discredit the underground media... use your heads people
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ElementaryPenguin (1000+ posts) Fri Nov-12-04 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
43. May seem crazy at a glance - but I have a hunch it may be true. Read this
http://www.realnews247.com/candidate_seeks_to_expose_20...
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TexasChick (1000+ posts) Fri Nov-12-04 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. Hmmm, very interesting, ElementaryPenguin. n/t
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pointsoflight (830 posts) Sat Nov-13-04 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #43
50. Well, there's no way we can verify this.
There might be something there, but we'll just have to see if anything develops. The guy says he contacted the FBI...
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lwfern (1000+ posts) Sat Nov-13-04 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
46. Odd Sembler - Jeb connection
"Barely a teen, Samantha also had no history of drug abuse. But she spent the next two years of her life surviving Straight. She was beaten, starved and denied toilet privileges for days on end. She describes her "humble pants," a punishment that forced her to wear the same pants for six weeks at a time. Because she was allowed just one shower a week, the pants often filled with feces, urine and menstrual blood. Often she was confined to her closet for days. She gnawed through her jaw during those "timeout" sessions, hoping she'd bleed to death. She says that after she was raped by a male counselor, "the wonderful state of Florida paid for and forced me to have an abortion.
... Florida Gov. Jeb Bush visited and praised SAFE, despite the fact that a Miami television station reported widespread Straight-like abuse at the facility in a 2000 expose.
... Shattered lives, suicides, forced abortions, fractured psyches — all necessary casualties of the drug war, and nothing to apologize for."
http://www.webdiva.org/fox /
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seemslikeadream (1000+ posts) Sat Nov-13-04 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. from your link
Betty Sembler co-chaired Jeb Bush's campaign committee. In return, the governor declared Aug. 8, 2000, "Betty Sembler Day" in Florida — due, he said, to her work "protecting children from the dangers of drugs."
She also serves on the board of DARE, the largely failed anti-drug program for elementary school students.
DFAF also worked with then-governor Bush on anti-drug programs in Texas, and today claims to have his ear on national drug policy as well. Indeed, Arizona prosecutor and Sembler favorite Rick Romley was on Bush's short list for drug czar. Though Romley wasn't nominated, Bush did tap staunch drug warrior John Walters. The nomination caused Betty Sembler to remark, ".... we have lacked the leadership and support of the White House ... until now."
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DoYouEverWonder (1000+ posts) Sat Nov-13-04 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. Google Bay Point School
+ Jeb and it seems this school sure does have a special place in Jeb's heart?
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Oak2004 (630 posts) Sat Nov-13-04 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. Now I get it! The right is anti-choice, but pro abortion. nt
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